2

the Fourth, two years and more; 1 after Marcellinus, seven years and more; after Nicholas the First, as some say, eight years and more; and after Felix, sometimes the Duke of Savoy, St. Peter's chair stood empty ten years, 3 saith Bodin. Whereupon will follow, that the church hath often, and long together, been headless; but that is not so great a matter, you say:-Is it not? Whence, I pray you, should the church have her wit, when she is bereaved of her head? The saying is, great head, little wit; but, without question, no head, no wit. When the church is headless, she is witless, and, by consequence, helpless; and therefore, I take it, you have good cause to beware that you grant nothing, whereon it may be concluded, that your church was once headless.

Pap. But did not St. Austin hold opinion, upon supposition of a like case, that the church of Christ should not be prejudiced? Did not he, having recited up the popes of Rome from Christ to his days, make this demand, What, if any Judas, or traytor, had entered among these, or been chosen by error of men? And answereth presently, Nihil præjudicaret ecclesiæ, & innocentibus Christianis.'

Prot. Yes; but, considering the body of your doctrince, you may not answer so, nor think so: for you hold, that your pope is head of the church, and that it is necessary unto salvation to acknowledge him the head; but so did not St. Austin. You hold, that, in a true church, one bishop must lawfully succeed another, or all is dashed; but so did not St. Austin: for he puts the case, that some traytor subrepsisset, that is, had come in unorderly into the bishop of Rome's seat; and yet resolves. that that was not prejudicial to God's church. Conform yourselves in these two points, of the pope's headship and succession, to St. Austin's judgment; and then you may better say, in this case of Pope Joan, that which Austin said in the case proposed, that she had not prejudiced the church of Christ.

6

Pap. We make more reckoning of St. Austin than you do; but I will not stand wrangling upon his meaning now because, whatsoever inconvenience can be imagined in this case, is more against you than us for your church admitteth for lawful and supreme head thereof, either man or woman, which our church doth not.

Prot. Our church admitteth neither man nor woman for lawful and supreme head of the catholick church, as yours doth. Our church teacheth, that Christ only is the head thereof. Our church admitteth neither man nor woman for lawful and supreme head of a particular church; for our church acknowledgeth the king supreme governor only, not supreme head; and so she stiled Queen Elisabeth in her time. Though, if we give our princes more, yet the inconveniencies against us are not like the inconveniencies against you, because the next in blood is to succeed with us; the greatest simonist, who can make his faction strongest, is to succeed with you.

1 Anastas. Lib. citat. in Marcellino, & Polonus in Codice Manuscripto, & Pontacus Chronogr. Lib. ii.

num. 718.

2 Teste Platina in Vit. Nichol. I.

4 N. D. Part ii. cap. 5. num. 19.

teras cujusdam Donatista. Supremacy, 1 Elis.

6 N. D. Loco supra citato,

3 De Rcpub. Lib. vi. 5 Austin. Epist. 165, ad Li7 The Oath of

Pap. What other inconvenience follows upon this accident, to supp se it true?

Prot. If it be true there was such a pope, your church must be discarded as no true church; for thus I argue, 'That it is no true church, which cannot give, in plain authentical writing, the lawful, orderly, intire, without any breach, and sound notorious succession of bishops. But your church, if Joan was Pope, cannot give, in plain authentical writing, the lawful, orderly, intire, without any breach, and sound notorious succession of bishops; for, by reason of her, Benedict the Third could not orderly succeed Leo the Fourth; she put in a caveat, or rather, was, of herself, a bar to his succession; by her a breach was made in the rank of your popes; she, no fool, but a whore, marred your play.

Pap. No, no; for all that you can rightly gather upon her popedom is, That the Pope's seat stood empty of a lawful pastor for the space of two years, and a few odd months. Now so it did often, by reason of the differences among the electors, as you yourself shewed. And yet no man durst say, nor could truly say, that succession failed, as 2 Baronius writes.

6

Prot. As Baronius notes? If Baronius may be judge, there is nothing that can mar your succession, neither vacancy, nor entrance in by the window. Whether the chair be empty, or full, by irreption, or by usurpation, it is all one to Baronius. Baronius will not give over his plea of succession. For, though he, not without grief, confesseth, that many ugly monsters have sat in St. Peter's chair; though he confesseth, that many apostates, rather than apostolical persons, have occupied that room; though he confesseth, that there have been many popes, which came irregularly to the papacy, and served for no other purpose than cyphers in arithmetick, to make up the number; yet he holdeth their succession sound. Though Baronius writes, that Boniface the Sixth, who got possession of St. Peter's chair, and kept it fifteen days, was a wicked fellow, and not worthy to be reckoned among popes, inasmuch as he was condemned by a council held at Rome. Though he writes, that Stephen the Seventh, such another as Boniface the Sixth, or rather worse, played at thrust-out-rotten with Boniface the Sixth, and kept the papacy five years; though he writes, that Pope Christopher shuffled Leo the Fifth out, and by violence installed himself, and kept it seven months; and that Sergius, at the seven months end, shuffled Christopher out, shearing him a monk, and keeping it to himself, as some say, seven years; as 10 Baronius himself saith, three

1 Bristow, Motive 22. 2 Nihil prætereà ex ea ter miseri novatores lucri capiunt, nisi ut dici possit duobus illis annis & mensibus sedem Pontificiam legitimo vacuam fuisse pastore→ -quod & aliàs accidit, ut majori temporis spacio sedes Pontificia, dilata per discordias eligentium, electione vacarit: nec tamen successionem desisse, quis unquam ausus est dicere, quod nec dici potuit. Sed tantum esse dilatam, nullo vero modo sublatam. Baron. Annal. tom. x. ad ann. 853. num. 63. 3 Quot proh pudor! proh dolor! in eandem sedem visu horrenda intrusa sunt monstra, &c. tom. x. ad ann. 900, num. 3. 4 Non apostolici, sed apostatici, tom. x. ad ann. 908, num. 4. 5 Qui non sunt nisi ad consignanda tantum tempora in Catalogo Rom. Pontificum scripti, tom. x. ann. 912, num. 8. 6 Homo nefarius, jam antea bis gradu depositus, &c. non numerandus inter Pontifices, utpote qui damnatus fuit in Rom. Synod. tom. x. ad ann. 897. num. 1. 7 Tom. x, ad ann. 897, num. 1.

8 Apostolica

sedis invasor, & fur & latro- -indignus nomine Rom. Pontif. ibid. ann. 900. num. 6.
9 Toni. x. ad ann. 908, num. 1, ibid.
10 Ad ann. 910, num. 1.

4

3

years; yet all this shuffling, in Baronius's opinion, doth nothing stain succession: Yea, though he cannot deny that Boniface the Seventh, who sat as Pope one year and one month, was a ' wicked varlet, a plain tyrant, a savage beast, an usurper, one that had no good property of a pope: Though he cannot deny, but that Leo the Eighth, who was a schismatick, and an intruder, and an antipope, 2 in his opinion, kept the place almost two years. Though he cannot deny, but that John the Twelfth, who was but like a pope in a play, kept it nine years; and John the Eleventh, the bastardly brat of Sergius above named, who came to it by evil means, and managed it accordingly, kept it six years; and John the Tenth, as false a lad as any of his fellows, who entered by fraud, and ruled with violence, kept it fifteen years; yet this lessens nothing the credit of his succession. I warrant you, Baronius was of Genebrard's opinion, who, though he granted that fifty popes together came in unlawfully, and governed as madly, would not yet let his hold of succession go.

5

Pap. is there any further inconvenience which may light upon us, if this story be true?

8

5

7

Prot. Yes; for if it be granted there was such a pope, the popish priests among you may well doubt of the lawfulness of their mission; and you lay-papists of the sufficiency of the absolutions, which they give you upon your ear confessions, and of the truth of the real presence, and transubstantiation. For, unless the popish priests be priested by a lawful bishop, their priesthood is not worth a rush ; unless you lay-papists be absolved by a lawful priest, your absolution is nought worth; and, unless the words of consecration be uttered by a lawful priest, intent upon his business, there follows no substantial change in the creatures of bread and wine. Now how can your priests be assured, that they were priested by lawful bishops; and how can you lay-papists be assured that you are absolved by lawful priests; or that your masses are said by lawful priests; seeing we read (as before I shewed) that Pope Joan gave orders, Pope Joan made deacons, and priests, and bishops, and abbots? For it may be well enough, that the priests of this present age are descended from those who were ordained by her; especially seeing we no where read, that they were degraded by succeeding popes, who had their ordination from her. Her successors dealt not with her shavelings, as Pope John the Twelfth did with Leo the Eighth's shavelings. 10 John the Twelfth. degraded them all, and compelled every of them to give him up a paper, wherein it was thus written Episcopus weus (meaning Leo the Eighth)

9

1 Scelestissmus vir, ad ann. 974. num. 1. nefandissimus parricida, truculentus prædo, qui ne pilum habuisse dici potest Romani Pontificis, ad ann, 985. num. 1. 2 Tom. x. ad ann. 931. num. 38. Ostensus fuit tanquam in scena mimus pontificem agens, tom. x. ad ann. 955, num. 4. 3 Tom. x. ad ann. 931. num. 14 Invasor & detentor injustus Apostolica sedis ad ann. 928. num. 1. 5 Chronolog. lib. iv. Seculo. 10, ad ann. 904. 6 In Episcopis de jure divino residet ista potestas creandi sacerdotes. Tolet. Summa Casuum Conscient. Lib. i. cap. 1. 7 Anathema sit qui dixerit non solos sacerdotes este Ministros absolutionis. Cenc. Trid. Sess. 14. Can. 10. 8 Semper in Ecclesia pro indubitato habitum est, ita necessariam esse ordinationem sacerdotalem ad Eucharistiam conficiendam, ut sine ea nullomodo confici possit. Bell. lib. iv. de Euchar. cap. 16. 9 Pag. 84, 10 Sigebert. in Chron. ad ann. 963. Baron. Annal. tom. x. ad ann. 962. num. 9. Joh. de Tur recrem. Sum, de Eccles. lib. ii, cap. 103.

nihil sibi habuit, nihil mihi dedit; had nought for himself, and gave me nought; but so did not Benedict the Third with her's. Unless you say, that communis error facit jus, as' lawyers said in the case of Barbarius Philippus, I know not what you can reply with probability to this; and yet that will not serve your turn, for, though it may be so in matters of the commonwealth, in matters of the church it cannot be For an error in the beginning, in matters touching the church, proves often an heresy in conclusion. In matters of the church, prescription adds no credit to actions of evil beginning.

30.

1 De Officio Prætoris.

THE

BATHS OF BATH:

OR,

A NECESSARY COMPENDIOUS TREATISE CONCERNING THE NATURE, USE, AND EFFICACY OF

THOSE FAMOUS HOT WATERS;

Published for the Benefit of all such as yearly, for their Health, resort to those Baths. With an Advertisement of the great utility that cometh to Man's Body, by the taking of Physick in the Spring, inferred upon a Question moved, concerning the Frequency of Sickness, and Death of People, more in that Season than in any other.

Whereunto is also annexed a Censure, concerning

THE WATER OF ST. VINCENT'S ROCKS,

NEAR BRISTOL,

Which begins to grow in great Request and Use against the Stone. By THO. VENNER, Doctor of Physick, in Bath.

London, printed by Felix Kyngston, in 1628- Quarto, containing twenty-six pages.

Serenissima Principi Maria, Angliæ, Scotia, Franciæ, & Hiberniæ, Regina,

Hoc de Thermis Bathoniensibus opusculum humillime dedicat & consecrat

THO. VENERUS, Med. Dr.

TO THE READER.

Good Reader, seeing, in the few years that I have exercised physick at the Baths, the yearly concourse, in the spring and fall, of people of all sorts, and from all parts of this kingdom, to those famous waters; and the little benefit that many, after great expence and trouble, receive thereby; I was induced to publish this ensuing treatise, wherein I have very briefly shewed the nature and efficacy of those waters; touched the causes that many find not comfort, but oftentimes rather hurt, that resort to them; with such advertise