In India a Native does not know what we mean by the country when a prisoner is arraigned, and the interpreter translates the phrase by God, and the gentlemen here.' All the petit juries in every case where life is concerned, have conducted themselves very well, but in cases of misdemeanours, there will be a jealousy; and as, in military matters, we have seen the Native tribunals at all times act with justice, there can be no reason why the Natives of Calcutta should not be allowed equal privileges. What appears necessary is, to know why the English law does not extend to all, but it has been a misfortune arising out of the Acts of Parliament, and the construction of the words 'British subjects' and 'subjects of the King.' In Calcutta, before the last Act, the privilege was not confined to British subjects, for the charter of King George I. directed that the principal inhabitants' should be summoned as grand and petit jurors, and, therefore, before the Act of 1783, establishing the Supreme Court, the Natives might have served on either grand or petit juries. The Act says, our subjects within the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court,' but when it speaks of juries, it mentions the words our subjects of Great Britain.' It has happened, therefore, when there has been a trial of a Mohammedan for an offence committed beyond the limits of Calcutta, that there has been a dispute as to whether or not he should be tried as a British subject. Is it not, therefore, a great misfortune that a doubt should exist, whether a man should be tried for his life or no? and, indeed, I think that it would be extremely proper to have a Committee for the purpose of considering the state of the administration of justice in India. It is still a great problem, there, whether it would not be better to have Judges ignorant of jurisprudence than of the language. If they have spent their time in becoming masters of the law of our courts, they cannot acquire the language of India; but, against the first objection, I must say that I have seen Natives who have administered justice with ability, and I have been connected with, and have had longer and greater experience of the Natives, from which I have been led, in place of entertaining a low opinion of their morality, to the conclusion that they would not suffer by a comparison with our own people, and indeed, that they were in no wise inferior to them. In their dealings, on the whole, I am inclined to believe that the palm of honesty should be conceded to them. I say this from conviction, and I therefore hope that Honourable Members will not give way to any prejudices which may have been excited in their minds against the character of the Natives. Now, as to the judicial capacity of the Natives, I do not think there can be any question upon it, and there is nobody who has seen their conduct upon arbitrations but will admit their skill, their intelligence, and their readiness to draw a fair conclusion. The Noble Lord says, that Mr. Elphinstone was the first to give the Natives a larger jurisdiction than fifty rupees; but the Noble Lord was mistaken with respect to Bengal, as there they have a jurisdiction to the amount of 120 rupees, which is a greater amount than any petty court in this country extends to. Therefore it is a mistake to suppose that Natives are excluded; they are placed under the superintendence of certain officers, who conduct themselves very well, although they have not all the advantages of education. I know myself a pundit of the supreme court with a salary of 150 rupees per month, which is a great deal for that country. But what is his office ?-he is the expounder of the law to the English Judge and I have had to prosecute a pundit for bribery, he having received 50,000 rupees to give an opinion to the Judge. He, upon his trial, acted most ingeniously, as he proved, that although he did take the money, he had kept it only one night in his house, and sent it back to the party. It afterwards turned out, however, that the reason of his doing so, was, that he had in the interim got 55,000 rupees from his antagonist in the cause, for giving a different opinion to the Judge.

I am sure that this is a question worthy of the consideration of the Government, and I shall conclude without entering into the next question of the Government of this empire, as I shall have various other opportunities for discussing that, when free-trade and its benefits are spoken of, although I agree with its advocates generally, still I think that there has been some reason for regret, from its operation upon the manufacturers of India. I know that 500,000 manufacturers of that

country have been cast into a state of destitution by the introduction of our manufactures there; I also say, that we observe as shameful conduct towards India by the duties levied here, whilst our cottons and muslins have admission into India at the rate of 21 per cent.; although, at the same moment, we charge 10 per cent. upon their cottons, and even now 20 per cent. upon their silks, except, indeed, the raw material. I think, therefore, that when we speak of free-trade, we have a right to do something for India.

Sir CHARLES FORBES.-I rise to say, that I entirely coincide in what has fallen from the Honourable and Learned Gentleman who has just sat down, and to say, that I never felt myself more gratified than I have done at hearing the sentiments expressed by all the Honourable Gentlemen who have spoken on the presentation of the petition. I wish to admit the Natives of India to a participation in all civil rights belonging to British subjects. I have had the good fortune to serve on petit juries with Natives-the Sessions were held before the Governor and Council as judges, and on all occasions upon which Natives were to be tried, they were tried by juries composed one-half of Natives and one-half of Europeans-it was usual for some of the principal gentlemen to be called on to serve as foremen to these juries. I say, Sir, I have had the satisfaction to serve with Natives--I will assert that I have often had more satisfaction in being associated with them, than with my own countrymen. Under these circumstances, I have frequently regretted that Natives were not eligible to serve as grand jurors, having had experience of their efficiency as petit jurors. I think it will often be found impossible to find a sufficient number of European gentlemen to serve on grand juries efficiently, without admitting Natives to that privilege. Some gentlemen upon grand juries amuse themselves with a newspaper or a novel, and if this is questioned, they avow, that having made up their minds on the subject, they do not care to hear the evidence which may be produced. I wish to have no such exclusions continued as those under which the Natives at present labour. I have had a great deal of experience, and the fullest opportunities of considering the subject, and I concur in all that has been so justly urged by the Honourable and Learned Gentlemen over the way. It is quite true, that to trust men without paying them an adequate salary for their services is an extremely bad principle, and I entirely agree with the observations of the Noble Lord. I wish to see the odious distinctions at present subsisting between the Natives and Europeans abandoned. Native peculators are not only dismissed the public service, but their names are published in all the newspapers, and in every language; and this is done without trial, at least, without that which would be called so here. Europeans are differently treated when accused of a similar offence. I think such distinctions ought not to exist.

Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH.-I do not think that a few hours would be misemployed if applied to what so nearly concerns the interests and rights of 80 or 100 millions of inhabitants of India, as does the present question. For my own part, I confess I feel much interested in the welfare of India-I mean of the Natives of India ruled by English inerchants, but still his Majesty's Indian subjects. I entirely concur in the observations that have proceeded from every part of the House on this subjectand I rejoice exceedingly at the spirit that has breathed throughout every portion of this conversation. I believe there never was an absolute government so well administered as that of India, and that circumstance affords a full confutation to the observation of a celebrated political writer-namely, that the dependencies of free States are of necessity worse governed than those of absolute monarchies. I believe public opinion in England to be the guarantee of the good government of India. The British Government of India has two great merits-it affords perfect security to persons and property, and toleration in all matters of religion. These are benefits of the very highest class-against them are to be placed two defects,-the enormous taxation, and the too great exclusion of the Natives of India from the privileges of civil office. The Noble Lord has shewn that not only is it possible to make great progress in the improvement of the condition of the Natives, but that it has been made. It is the duty of every man who wishes well to the government of India to promulgate the fact, that of all persons who have been concerned in Oriental Herald, Vol. 22.

N

governing that country, Mr. Elphinstone, at Bombay, did the most towards admitting Natives to so large a share of civil privileges as possible. I am glad that testimony to this effect has proceeded from more unbiassed lips than mine, because it might have been thought that my sincere friendship for that individual influenced me too much when speaking in praise of his public acts. Great benefits are to be anticipated from introducing improvements in the education of the Natives, and it is due and but justice-to Sir John Malcolm to say, that no man is better fitted to carry into effect their improvement in that particular than himself. I rejoice at the generous testimony that has been borne to the good character of the Natives of India in this House. I do not wish to deduct anything from the character they have so deservedly received-their private character is excellent, and if from peculiar circumstances their public integrity has been impaired, the remedy is in our own hands. I say, if an absolute government has impaired that quality, the only. remedy consists in a just government and equal laws, and in cautiously approaching to the grand remedy of political vices, a free government, a thing which, in the present case, I admit is only to be contemplated through the vista of distant ages, but which is still exceedingly desirable.

Dr. PHILLIMORE.-How much soever I might have wished to have taken part in this discussion at an earlier period of the debate, the sentiments I entertain on the general subject have been so much anticipated by many Members who have addressed the House, that I should have abstained from uttering a syllable, had it not been for some expressions that have fallen from an Honourable Member behind me. That Honourable Member seemed to assume to himself the credit of the improvements which have taken place in the administration of justice of India, and to imagine that it was by his exertions in this cause that my Right Honourable Friend was stimulated to direct his attention to this subject. On this point no individual is more competent to give evidence than myself; and I can assure the House, that from the moment my Right Honourable Friend was invested with the important functions attached to the Presidency of the Board of Control,-from that moment he zealously devoted himself to the affairs of India; and that no object, from the outset, more incessantly occupied his attention than the administration of justice in the vast territories there submitted to our rule. Whenever vacancies occurred in the judicial situation at the three Presidencies, he anxiously sought out the most competent persons in Westminster Hall, and exerted himself in persuading them to accept these appointments. So with respect to the Zillah courts; he exerted himself to the utmost to introduce improvement into them, and, ultimately, he carried the great measure which is the more immediate object of this petition.

Having witnessed the exertions of my Right Honourable Friend in this cause for six years, I have not been able to deny myself the satisfaction of bearing testimony to them. For the rest, I cannot sit down without observing, that in the lapse of ages, and the revolutions of mighty empires, no more extraordinary circumstance can have occurred, than that we should have witnessed (as we do this night) the inhabitants of one of the most populous and most flourishing cities of Asia, presenting petitions to this House, and earnestly entreating to be admitted to transplant into their soil those municipal regulations and institutions which have justly been considered as the peculiar birthright of the natives of Great Britain.

Mr. WARBURTON said,-All persons, I am afraid, are not so well agreed as to the good character of the Natives of India, as seems to be assumed. I confess, that, from the various accounts I have read, and from the evidence of Sir Henry Strachey in corroboration, I am much disposed to doubt the morality of their general character. I think, therefore, that at all events this House should be very cautious in admitting them to the privileges prayed for in the petition.

Sir CHARLES FORBES.-I maintain, on an experience of three-and-twenty years, and as long as I exist I will never cease to maintain, that the Natives of India are as good and as moral, and as much entitled to respect, as our own countrymen.

Mr. JOHN STEWART.-I am disposed to support this petition of Native Indians to be allowed to serve on grand and petit juries. I am bound to confirm the testimony

which has just been borne, to the character of these people, by the Honourable Baronet opposite. I have the highest opinion of them; and that opinion, I take leave to say, is not peculiar to me, but is entertained by everybody who has ever had a fair opportunity of judging of them.

The petition was brought up. On the question that it be read,

Mr. CHARLES WATKIN WILLIAMS WYNN said,-I believe no man ever discharged his duty with more advantage to those over whom he presided, than Mr. Elphinstone; and I may add, that Sir Thomas Munro was quite as strongly impressed as anybody could be with the advantage to be derived from availing ourselves of the services of Native functionaries. I have heard with great pleasure the testimony borne by my Noble Friend to the attempts that have been made since the date of the last charter for the furtherance of education among the Natives of India. A sum not less than a lac of rupees (10,000l.) was, by the Act of 1813, directed to be expended annually for the attainment of that object; and I believe no one year has passed in which much more than that amount has not been so expended. I think it desirable that the privileges now sought should be granted as a favour; and, therefore, much as I desire that it may be conceded, I do not regret that it has not been granted before it was asked, for then we could not know how it might have been accepted-whether as a boon or as a burden. If it be now yielded after this request, we may trust that it will be received in the same spirit as it will be conceded.

DEBATE AT THE EAST INDIA HOUSE.

A Quarterly General Court of Proprietors of East India Stock was held on Wednesday the 17th of June.

DIVIDEND.

The usual routine business having been gone through,'

The CHAIRMAN (J. Loch, Esq.) announced that the Court of Directors had, on the preceding day, agreed to a resolution, recommending that a dividend of 54 per cent. should be declared on the Company's capital stock, for the half-year commencing on the 5th of January last, and ending 5th of July next, which he then submitted to the proprietors for their approbation. The resolution of the Court of Directors, declaratory of a dividend of 54 per cent., was unanimously agreed to.

BY-LAWS.

Mr. D. KINNAIRD presented the annnal report of the committee of bylaws. The committee referred to the delay which had, on several occasions, occurred in sending home accounts of the Company's finances from India, which prevented them from being laid before the Proprietors at the time pointed out by one of the by-laws, and they expressed their satisfaction at the result of the correspondence which had taken place on this subject with the authorities abroad, from which they were led to infer, that such delays would be provided against in future. They certified that, during the last year, the by-laws, except in this particular point, had been strictly complied with; and they recommended that the by-law, cap. 1. sec. 4, should be altered, so as to render it imperative on the Directors to lay before the Proprietors' copies of all bills or resolutions submitted to Parliament which at all affected the East India Company.'

The members of the committee of by-laws of the last year were re-elected

for the ensuing year, with the exception of Mr. Cumming, who resigned on account of ill-health. In his place, William Ward, Esq., one of the Members for London, was elected.

LAND REVENUE.

Mr. TRANT, in pursuance of notice which he had given at the last General Court, moved for Copies of any letters addressed by the Court of Directors to the Governor-General in Council, relative to the settlement of the land revenue in the ceded and conquered provinces of India, under the Marquis Wellesley, since the year 1820, containing instructions by which the Governor-General was prevented from adopting any measure for the permanent settlement of the land revenue in those provinces; and also Copies of any minute or protest made by Mr. Edmonstone against the principle of such instructions.' The Hon. Proprietor argued that a positive pledge had been given to the Proprietors of the general districts ceded to, or conquered by, the Company, during the administration of the Marquis Wellesley, that a permanent settlement of the land revenue should be effected. This pledge had never been redeemed, and the refusal to do that which he and many other individuals well versed in Indian affairs considered to be an act of justice, was calculated to endanger the interests of the Company in India. In support of his view of the question, the Hon. Proprietor quoted extracts from the correspondence of Sir E. Colebrooke, Mr. Dowdeswell, Mr. James Stuart, and Mr. Adam.

Captain MAXFIELD was of opinion that, when a question of such immense magnitude was brought forward, the individual with whom it originated ought to give a clear and distinct notice of his intention, so that the Proprietors might be prepared to meet it fairly.

The CHAIRMAN said, he felt it to be his duty to oppose the motion, not from any desire of concealment, but purely because he considered it inexpedient to debate a question of so extremely complicated a nature in the Court of Proprietors. He could assure his Hon. Friend, that this question had never been lost sight of either by the Court of Directors or the local governments; but difficulties of the most serious nature stood in the way of an arrangement. His Hon. Friend had stated, that the Company had given a pledge to the Natives on this subject. Now, how stood the fact? In 1803, during the administrations of the Marquis Wellesley, a certain promise was made, coupled with certain conditions, which conditions had not been fulfilled, and, he believed, never could be fulfilled; but whether they could or could not be fulfilled he would not then discuss, because he did not wish to agitate the question. This he knew, that the more inquiry had been pursued on this subject, the greater did the difficulties of the case appear. The fact was, that there were two classes of people connected with this case. There was a middle class, who were anxious to make a settlement. They were desirous that the Company should take a certain assessment for ever, leaving the real proprietors, the ryots, out of the question. The Company were called on to grant an advantage to a small class of people, and to inflict an injury upon a very large body. Under these circumstances, it was a very serious subject to decide upon; and one which, he was sure, could not be usefully debated in that court.

Mr. TRANT denied that the subject was so complicated as the honourable chairman had described it to be; and he maintained that the conditions, which were to be followed by a permanent settlement of the land revenue, had been amply fulfilled.

The CHAIRMAN observed, that it was the wish of the Government to