THE

Gentleman's Magazine;

For JULY, 1780.

Debates in Parliament, continued from

p. 260.

Dec. 17.

Sir Cs C-x produced the eftiO the plan which mates of the ordnance amounting to. Mr. B-ke propofed 1,049,000l. which he obferved was to lay before the 132,000l. more than last year. This Houfe foon after Aintroduced a variety of mifcellaneous the recefs (fee p. matters, the greatest part of which had 260.) there was no been difcuffed before. The state of oppofition. Some Plymouth, when the French fleet came members who had before it (fee p. 109.) was again brought been acquainted with the outlines fpoke B in review; alfo the complaint formerly of it in terms of the highest approba- urged against the ordnance-board for tion, and Mr. F-x in particular ex- neglect in the article of gun-powder, preffed his hopes that no man, or de- which, it was faid, was fo bad that when feription of men, would be fo loft to all Adm. Barrington fought the French fenfe of fhame as to accept of any fhare fleet off the ifland of Grenada the balls in the management of public affairs, C from the English fhips engaged in that without endeavouring to vindicate his action fell short of the enemy; while own honour, and the honour of that thofe from D'Eftaign's fleet went over houfe, by adopting the liberal princi- the English fhips, and even pierced ples held forth in the plan in question, them. which went to add to the public fer-D vice 200,000l. a year, and to cut off from the fund of corruption more than double that fum. This was plaufible, and promifed much; but thofe who knew the difficulty of eftablishing oe- He faid, that when the report began conomy in private life, where pompto prevail of the badnefs of the powder, and fplendor had long obtained, conceived no very fanguine expectations of Admiralty, defiting to know if they from an attempt to reduce the extrava- had received any official complaint or gant expenditure of the flate over which information on that fubject. Their no administration ever had, or ever will anfwer was, They had not; but would have, the fole controul. It muft how-make the neceflary enquiry; in conever be owned, that no plan could be fequence of which they foon after tranfintroduced into a parliament for the re- mitted to the Ordnance Board a letter gulation of the feveral departments of received from Adm. Barrington, ftating, government with greater appearance of That the gun-powder of the Prince of difinterestedness, candour, and mode-Wales (his own fhip) was fupplied at ration. It was received with univerfalPlymouth; but could give no other inapplaufe; but in its progrefs through formation concerning that of the Boyn the house, by far the greater part was St. Albans, the Nonfuch, the Ifi rejected with difguft.

E

F

Of this fact, and the reafon for it, a very fatisfactory account was given by Mr. Strachey, which, as it is well worth remembering, we fhall be the more particular in relating it.

the board of ordnance wrote to the lords

quantity appeared to be entirely spoiled.

Prefton, and the Centurion, than that it was in general bad; that their balls did not reach the fhips of the enemy The Prefton, Mr. Strachey faid, was when their grape-fhot lodged in fome fitted out for North America in Febru of our fhips-fides. On the receipt of ary, 1776, and fupplied at Halifax this information the Board of Ordnance with 110 barrels of powder in June. A caufed the gunner's accounts to be ex- In December, the fame year, the obamined, and directed the proper officers tained 200 barrels from the gunner of at the feveral ports where any of thofe the Boyne; and in April, 1778, the fhips fhould arrive, to examine the had a further fupply at New York, powder in each fhip, to send up fealed which last was probably prize-powder; famples of it, and to make every ne- but as no complaints of her powder ceffary enquiry where and with what B had yet reached the Ordnance Board, quantities they had been fupplied be- he prefumed it might be good. fore and fince their departure from England: the refult was, that they difcovered that the powder of the Prince of Wales was ordnance powder, but that it had been taken in fo long ago as March, 1778; that it was found in hard cakes or lumps, which when broken fhewed the falt-petre in the centre like fpar; that the fhips magazine was found to be wet; and that the Prince of Wales had been at fea fo long, and chiefly in a hot climate, that without fhifting the powder neither its confiftence nor ftrength could poffibly be preserved.

Of the powder of the Boyne he could give no other account (as that ship was not then arrived) but that she was fitted. out in April, 1778.

The Centurion, he faid, had been out ever fince July, 1775, when she compleated her quantity of powder at Chatham, and had received no other fupply, except only 28 half-barrels at Halifax, in June, 1778: that being fill abroad, no farther account could be given till her return. These, he faid, were all the fhips named by Adm, Barrington: but there was till another, the Monmouth, one of Adm. Byron's fquadron, which he begged leave to mention, as he was lately arrived from the West Indies, and much had been faid of the condition in which This

her powder had been found. fhip received her full compliment, being E328 barrels, of the very best powder at Plymouth the 28th of April, 1778. On The St. Albans was fitted out at the 12th of October last she returned to Portimouth in March, 1777; that in Plymouth; and upon a Survey of 210 Auguft, 1779, when the returned to barrels, her remaining stock, only 12 Spithead, he was fupplied with fifty barrels were found fit for ufe. Add to barrels of fresh powder, to make up her this, that according to the gunner's re ufual quantity; but as she did not come F port, the powder fitted into cannon into port the remaining part of her firft cartridges, grew gradually damp; and powder could not be examined, though, about two thirds of the quantity in if he might be allowed to judge from barrels confolidated into hard cakes. what has already been faid, it must have From all which he drew this conclubeen in the fame condition with that of fion that if powder of ever fo good a the Prince of Wales. Gquality, put up, is carried into a hot climate, and continued there more than fix months, without being fhifted and aired, it will lofe of its goodness and grow worfe and worfe every day the longer it continues. He would not, he faid, be underflood by this inference to throw the least shadow of blame on the captains who commanded on thofe ftations. From the nature of their fervice, he knew, fhifting and airing was

Of the Nonfuch no report had been made, and all he could fay was, that her powder was taken in at Plymouth in February, 1777.

Of the Ifis the report was truly alarming; for having taken in herH powder in December, 1776, on the 14th of September, 1779, when what was left, to the amount of 163 barrels, was landed at Portsmouth, the whole

imprac

impracticable at fea; what he had faid was meant to go no farther, than that no accufation could with juftice lie against the Board of Ordnance for any neglect or inattention to fo material an article on their part.

A

the ordnance commiffary to pay a charge of 91. 65. 8d. a barrel for gunpowder, he had accordingly drawn for payment at that price; but at the fame time he had tranfmitted to the board a proteft upon oath; which proteft, as it related to navy concerns, was referred by the Board of Ordnance to the Lords of Admiralty.

The Estimates were agreed to.

Refolved, That it is the opinion of this committee, that 85,000 men be Bemployed for the fea-fervice for the year 1780, including 18,779 marines.

C

Refolved, That it is the opinion of this committee, that a fum not exceeding 41. per man per month be allowed for maintaining them.

The house adjourned to the 24th of January.

This narrative brought on a farther explanation from Ld H-we, who obferved, that the operation of fhifting and airing could only be performed in part; and that when ships were a long while at fea (as had been the cafe with the fleet in queftion) the only expedient they had to prevent the ingredients of the powder from feeling, was by turning the barrels in the magazine, which was conftantly practifed; and though it did not effectually cure the evil, it certainly put it off to a longer day. His Lordship took occafion to obviae a malicious infinuation of one of thofe affaffinating authors who had bafely attempted to itab his reputation by many articles of accufation, and among them for granting permiffion for the file of prize-powder for the use of the fleet, as if done from interested motives, having himself an intereft in the produce. He defired Mr. Starchey to recollect what he knew of that affair; who very candidly acknowledged, that permillion had been obtained from his Lordship by Commodore Hotham to purchafe a quantity of prize-powder for the public fervice: that during the time his Lordship commanded at New York the price was fettled at 41. per barrel, which, in lefs than two months after his Lordship's departure, was purchafed at the rate of 94. 6s. and bills drawn on the office of ordnance at that price. Mr. Strachey concluded with declaring, that he knew, from his ownG obfervations, that no man could be more fcrupulous and attentive than the noble Ld to the œconomy of his depart ment; that it was apparent in the regulation for the fale of gunpowder; and much more fo in his management of the naval hofpitals, in which articleH alone, to his (Mr. Strachey's) knowledge, he had faved the public near 7,000l. a year.

C

Sir Cs Cx acknowledged, that the fucceeding Admiral having ordered

Jan. 24.

The house met, according to adjournment, when L-IS-pe, Efq. made the fame motion against the Duke of Bolton which Mr. L-1 had done against the Duke of Chandos, That the interference of peers of the realm was a high infringement of the privilege of parliament. See vol. XLIX. p. 613.

Mr. Ws contended, that the cafes were different. He had moved against the Duke of Chandos, not merely as a Peer of Parliament, but as a Peer of Parliament and as Lord Lieutenant of the County, for having used the influence and powers of the crown in vioFlation of the freedom of election; a matter infinitely more alarming than the interference of a private Peer of parliament.

Mr. S

-pe did not feem fatiffied with this argument; but finding the opinion of the houfe to favour it, he withdrew his motion.

Ld N-b, according to order, brought up a bill to allow the trade between Ireland and the British Colonies and Plantations in America and the Weft Indies and the British Settlements on the Coaft of Africa, to be carried on in like manner as it now is carried on between Great Britain and the faid Colonies and Settlements; his Lordship moved, that it might be read. On this occafion Ld G. Ga difcovered

fymptom

Jan. 25.

fymptoms not very confiftent with the character of a wife fenator. He expreffed his diftatisfaction with what had already been done for Ireland; infifted that the people of Ireland were diffatisfied; that he would prove it unanfwerably; that notwithstanding what Ld I-m, whom he then faw, or Ld B -nt had faid in the Houfe of Peers in Dublin, and notwithstanding the voice of both, Houles of the Irish Parliament, the armed affociations would have more; and that they did not expect it as a matter of favonr, but demanded it as a matter of right. He produced a pamphlet, entitled, a Letter to Ld N-h by F-s D-bbs, Efq. Counsellor at Law in Dublin, and be-CThe motion was agreed to. gan to read it, much to the diflike of the Houfe, which, from near 200 members, foon thinned to lefs than 50. and after proceeding half-way, an appeal was made to the fpeaker if gentlemen had a right to introduce pamph-DDeclaratory Act, just mentioned. He lets in their speeches? if they had, they might next introduce folio hooks. The Speaker declined deciding upon the question, and rested it with the Houfe, either to permit or refuse it.

Lord N-th moved," that the Rev. Dr. Horne, Prefident of Magdalen College, do preach before this Houfe the 4th day of February next, being the Aday appointed for a general fast."

Ld Geo. G-don faid, that whoever had advised a fait to be observed generally throughout Great Britain had done much ferious mifchief; that whenever a fast had been ordered in Scotland, the B popular preachers had taken occafion to interweave politics in their fermons, and to preach up Jehu, Rehoboam, and the wicked Ahab; that in these popish times government ought to be cautious as many were apt to fufpect the ****,

Ld G-e then calied for the order of the day, and being told by the Speaker "there was none," he feemed furprifed as he had given notice that he intended to move for a repeal of the

then proceeded to open his motion, and as a previous step began reading from a news-paper three speeches in the Irish Houfe of Lords, when lord N-th made fome apology for calling his lordship to LdGe infifted on doing his duty, order, which however had no other E and proceeded to read on, declaring the effect than to prevent his lordship from contents were worthy the attention of naming the speakers as he proceeded; every member of that Houfe. Ld N-h, and wden he had thus gone through Sir G. Y-ge, Ld B-ch-mp, and the fpeeches of lord Bellamont, the Lord feveral other gentlemen, expreffed their Chancellor, and the duke of Leinster, he difpleasure at his Lordship's proceed- again attempted to re-read the pamphlet ing; and the Speaker more than once F of Ceunfellor Dobbs, which he said gave it as his opinion that the pam- was really fo excellent that it ought to phlet had no fort of relation to the mo- be read every day in the week. A getion before the Houfe; but ftill Ld neral murmur took place. His lordG-e continued to read on, till he hip adverted to his motion, and prohad fo tired the Houfe that most of the duced it in form of a bill; but being members left their feats, and those who told by the Speaker that he must firit remained agreed to let him finish it. Giove for leave to bring it in; he acWhen he had done reading, he added cordingly moved for leave, but no a few general obfervations on the then member rifing to fecond his motion, ftate of Ireland; that the people there he called upon ld I-h-m, who, he was not contented; that they expected faid, had promised to fecond it. more than a free trade; they expected to be a free people; and he concluded with giving notice, that he would the next day move for a repeal of the Declaratory Act of George the Firit, binding Ireland in all cafes whatsoever. The question was put on Ld N-th's original motion, and carried.

"H

Ld I-b-m rofe, and owned he had baftily made fuch a promife, but that he had fince feen caule to wave it.

There being now no motion before the House, the Speaker put an end to this irregular proceeding by adjourn ing the Houfe."

Jan. 26. No debate.

Jan. 27.

Ld N-th moved the fecond reading of the bill for giving an equal trade to Ireland; which lord G-e again interrupted, and wifhed that Mr. Flood, a member of the Irish parliament, then in town, might be requested to inform the Houfe what he knew of the matter; which was over-ruled, and the motion agreed to.

Jan. 28.

The Houfe in committee relative to the difpofal of prize tobacco, when it B

was

Refolved, That prize tobacco, of foreign growth, fhould be liable to the duties as tobacco the product of the

British colonies.

Mr. B-ke gave notice, that on the 11th of February he fhould move his propofitious for public Oeconomy.

that a regard to private intereft in this Houfe is a great enemy to the difcharge of our public duty. They feel feverely the preffure of heavy taxes, yet they are told, the money which they can fo ill fpare is ufed profufely without proAducing any good, nay, and to the production of many bad effects. They beg that enquiry may be made, not a mock enquiry, into the expenditure of that money, that if there are any exorbitant falaries they may be reduced; that if there are any ufelefs places or unmerited penfions, they may be abolished. Thefe things are reprefented calmly and with moderation. This petition is not prefented by men with fwords and muf kets; it is a legal and conftitutional peCtition, and fhould it be refufed * * * * here he left a blank, he faid, for the confciences of members to fupply. He added, that he was not a little furprised to find that his honourable friend Mr. Burke had drawn up a plan in ideas fo Dfimilar to thofe declared by the prefent petition, that it was hardly poffible to believe there had been no communication between that gentleman and the petitioners of Yorkshire; but the univerfality of the fentiments on this fubEject is an almost incontrovertible proof of their juftnefs. He begged that the Houfe would confider from whom the petition comes. It was moved at a meeting of boo gentlemen of landed property (fee p. 97.), who are not to Fabandon the prayer of the petition whatever may be its fate in this House, He then moved that it might be read.

Mr. Tr complained of the general defertion of the Houfe; that unlefs Government had a point to carry, there were scarce members enough to be found to attend the Speaker; that it was a farce to talk of reprefentatives; they were not to be found within the walls of St. Stephen's, though they were to be met in troops in every other place of public refort. He believed in his confcience the confequence would be, that the people, finding their bufinefs deferted, would again take their concerns into their own hands, and act without reprefentatives. Adjourned.

Feb. 3.

The report of the committe of privileges was brought up on Mr. Luttrel's motion; and, at the initance of lord Nugent, was put off for four months. (See p. 95.)

Ld N-th moved the order of the day on the Irish papers, of which an account has already been given, p. 96. No debate of confequence till

Feb. 8.

When Sir Gro. S-le prefented the famous Yorkshire petition (fee p. 42.) which he faid was fubfcribed by 8000 freeholders, and called upon the nobic lord in the blue ribbon to fpeak out like a man, and declare whether he meant to fupport the petition or not. The people have heard, laid Sir George,

G

Ld N-th faid, the honourable gen. tleman needed not to have taken fo much pains to convince the House that it ought to be read. Every man knew that it was the right of Englishmen to petition; and he had been called upon to declare whether he would forward or oppofe the object of the petition. It was now before the Houfe, and it would have his confent to lie upon the table, Has is ufual, for the perufal of the members; and he hoped that every petition, properly introduced, would meet with a fair and candid investigation, without any undue influence either from the great weight of the petitioners, or trom

the