brother, or friend. He lamented the neceflity of referring to that part of the hon. gentleman's fpeech on a former occafion, in which, he had facrificed his humanity to the wantonnefs of his cloquence. The hon. gentleman, he faid, might to the documents of office have added, if he had pleafed, the living evidence of a gentleman of unqueftion able veracity [Mr. J. Pownal], who had fpent 30 years of his life at that board, and who had now no intereft in upholding it. been referred, as partly of their production. He revered literature, but did not wish to be overwhelmed with it. A great volume was to him a great evil; and the fmall volume of common fenfe, the ideas he had already got and registered, were, he thought, fufficient to guide Ahim in fo plain a bufinefs, without troubling his brain with 2300 volumes, the dead authorities to which he had been referred, any more than he should confult the living teftimony of Mr. John Pownal, who had made a fortune by his 30 years continuance in that office, to B know, whether he thought that office useful or not. Mr. Ed-n begged leave to reply, and began with complimenting the hon. gentleman [Mr. B-ke] with fpeaking infinitely better upon books which he had never feen, than he himself could ever Chope to do upon materials which he had carefully examined. He then went largely into the hiftory of the board of trade, traced its first inftitution as early as 1636, and fhewed its powers and proceedings in its progrefs; that it was no idle or ufelefs office; that its proper bufinefs con fifted in anfwers and reports to parliament, in reprefentations to the king, in reports to the privy council, in corre fpondences with the fecretaries of state, with the treafury, with foreign confuls, with governors and civil officers in the plantations, with corporate bodies, and with individuals. Such, he said, was the board which the hon. gentleman had condemned by a fingle dafh of his pen; he acknowledged the powers of that pen, but could not in this inftance acknowledge its deliberation, wisdom, or judgeF ment. M. Bke expreffed his aftouifhment at hearing himfelf charged with sporting with the feelings of widows, mothers, or friends, of the deceased. If any thing improper had fallen from him in the wantonnefs of eloquence, as the hon. gentleman was pleafed to exprefs it, it ought to be corrected in the coolness of recollection. In talking of the late Ld Suffolk, he had directed his ridicule at the office, not at the perfon, of his lordhip; and there could not be a gentleman in that Houfe fimple enough to mifconceive his meaning. He thanked the hon. gentleman for referring him to 2300D! folio volumes, the labour of 180 years, as unerring evidences of the utility of the board of trade, but begged to be excufed from examining one of them. They might ferve, however, as a monument under which both he and his claufe might be buried, and form a funeral pile for them as large as one of the pyramids of Egypt. Here he fported for fome time with the dull, fenfelefs, fluggish contents of the 2300 volumes, which he contrafted with the tranfcendent abilities of thofe great and venerable characters who were called as witnetfes to ftamp authority upon folly, to give currency to ftupidity, Mr. B-ke rofe again, and after fbewand induce the committee to believe, that ing that the whole fyftem of our trade what was laborious was ufeful; and then laws, the establishment of our colony golaunched into panegyric on the fhining vernments, the granting of charters, &c. talents of the prefent commiffioners.] As had been effected, while no board of trade a board of trade, he faid, he detefted the exifted, by commiffioners who received office his claufe went to abolish, but as Gno reward whatever for their fervices, proan academy of belles lettres he was ceeded to prove, that a board was no fooner ready to bow his head in reverence be- conftituted by parliamentary authority fore it. The public exercifes of the aca- than it gradually began to decrease, till demicians did it honour, and rendered it at length it has dwindled into a mere an object of public admiration, and public ufelefs finecure office, and the business applaufe, In concluding his ironical which was usually transacted in it is tranfencomiums, which he enlivened withHferred to the office of 3d fecretary of state. images full of fancy and abounding with wit, he took occafion to pay an elegant compliment to Locke, Addifon, and Prior; but much as he admired their writings, he could not undertake to tudy the 2300 volumes, to which he had With regard to the feveral matters which the hon. gentleman had enume rated as properly belonging to the board of trade, admitting the facts as he has reprefented them, was it not incumbent on the hon. gentleman to appeal to thofe proofs proofs of their affection and induftry in the difcharge of those duties which he was fo ingenious to find out; he expeed from the hon. gentleman, when he informed the committee of the 2300 voJumes, that he would have at leaft referred to, or acquainted the committee with fome of their voluminous contents. not the hon. gentleman time to extract out of his vaft mafs of information, fore After this he proceeded to examine the of the late anfwers and reports to both feveral points which Mr. Eden had stated, houfes of parliament? Some of the re- refpecting the power and authorities given. ports to the king in council, or immedi- to the board of trade, as also the feveral ately to his majefty himfelf; fome of the points contained in the account given by correfpondences carried on between the B Mr. Eden of the duties of that board. treafury and admiralty boards with the Under the firft head of their powers and fecretaries of ftate, and the great trading authorities, that of their general fuperand commercial companies No; not a intendency of trade, and their interfering fyllable; he fends the ignorant and curi- in every branch of it, either by encouous to the fame 2300 volumes. He has ragement or difcouragement, he faid, declined to quote a fingle line of corre- their beft merit was, that they had done fpondence held with the foreign confuls, nothing, and had not been mischievous, with governors; or a fingle application as the execution of thofe powers would or inftruction conveyed to our ambaffa- naturally have led them to have been. dors, through the medium of either of Under the next head, pursuing the our fecretaries of state. But what of courfe in which Mr. Eden had mentionthat? he guides with friendly hand the ed them, the feveral powers, authorities, anxious enquirer to his 2300 volumes. Dand duties of that board; he fhewed, that the greatest part (fince the feparate eftablifhment of the fecretary of flate) was done by that officer; that 'another main branch of their bufinefs was done by reference from the faid officer, to the crown, and to the council. That the business which they did, by reference from the privy council, might be done at any time by one clerk of the council. dom and people at large: and the legiflature had not only a right to make regu lations in them, but had in many inflances done it. In this light he confidered the fubject of the prefent debate. The board of trade was a parliamentary arrangement, begun as an experiment, and Had A had at different times taken different shapes. C After treating of other matters mentioned by the hon. gentleman (Mr. Eden) -with a vein of ironical pleafantry, he then proceeded to the queftion at large, in which, in a very able manner, he endeavoured to fhew, that the office of the board was ufelefs; that Mr. Grenville, and almost every other minifter, for the laft forty years complained of it, as attended with a very heavy expence, and totally unneceifary; and that Mr. Charles Townend, from his experience while at the board, had often held it up as an object of ridicule. F Gov. P-wn-ll entered feriously into the First great principle, viz. the right the parhament had to enquire into and controul the expenditure of the king's civil lift: he faid, that attending to the arguments of others had convinced him of the impropriety, both in point of policy as well as juftice, of interfering by an act of the houfe in any part of the civil lift applied to his majesty's perfonal dignity or the fupport of the royal family or houfhold. But thefe arguments did not apply or extend to the establishments of the state; there was an effential difference between the one cafe and the other. In the one, the arrangements of the establishments were made by his majefty, as his immediate and perfonal concern. In the other cafe, the arrangements of the ftate, the civil establishments, refpected the king That the only business which feemed to remain with them was, the hearing complaints of the Colonies against the governors, and other officers of the crown; but that in this branch alfo they had been fuperfeded by the privy council; for when the complaints against the late governor of the Maffachufetts Bay were preferred by the legislature of that province, the council, and not the board of trade, took cognizance of it, heard it, Gand gave judgment upon it. One branch mentioned by Mr. Eden, as their bufinefs, was, that they were to form plans of treaties of commerce for ambaffadors. He begged to know, when the commiffioners were fent as ambafladors to America, whether they received any inftructions from that board? if any fuch exifted, he was fure the hon. gentleman (Mr. Eden) could produce them. Another branch mentioned was, to fuperintend the trade between Great Britain and Ireland. He wished to know, whether on the late occafion which par liaments 596 Summary of Proceedings in the laßt Parliament. liament had to take that matter into con- the legiflative power on the property of whole, he infifted, that every invafion of Mr. Eden had stated, that the regu- in the conftitution; that our conftitution the crown, would be introducing a change lating the conftitutions, legiflature, and judicature of the Colonies, was in the deftood upon a nice equipoife, with steep partinent of that board. Upon this head he faid he could fpeak as giving evi-fide, we run a rifk of overturning it on precipices and deep waters on all fides; and by removing it from leaning to one dence, that the board never did interfere, the other.. without creating difputes with the Colonies, in which the authority of the crown, being unequally committed, was always impaired. As to their fuperintendence over the fettlement of Africa, and the affairs of the Eaft India Company, he fhould fay nothing; for the very mentioning of it, would be to libel and caricature the board. A B of ferving his majefty as governor in two Ld W-fc-e faid, he had had the honour refpectable fituations (Jamaica and S. who fpoke lately (Gov. Pownall), and likewife as his majefty's reprefentative at Carolina) as well as the hon. gentleman a foreign court (Portugal); and he would fay, that fo far from finding the board of trade an ufelefs and inefficient board, he had frequently derived great affiftance Cluded to. He then entered into a detail from it, in the capacity he had laft altisfied in his own mind, that no part of of the duties of the board, and was fathe public expenditure, which he knew of, was better, or more beneficially ap plied, than the Soool. per annum, ftated by the hon. gentleman, as the annual expence of that board. That one of their duties was faid to be the forming plans of government for new colonies. He should take notice only of two, Weft Florida and the Ceded lands. The firft was fo framed, that it created a civil war in the province, and the governor took one of his own forts by ftorm from his majefty's troops. As to the other, that of the Ceded Iflands, the difpute which arofe about admitting D Sir J. M-wb-y threw out a hint, Roman Catholicks into the legislature, that in all parliamentary enquiries, it had was fresh in every body's memory; and it was very well known, that the first re been ufual for the members, that were venue which their plans of government and that therefore when the queffion the fubject of it, to retire from the house; eftablifhed, was fuperfeded and abolifhed by the Court of King's Bench. He concluded, that it was not a queftion E fhould be put, he hoped the lords of trade now, whether that board should be abowould be pleafed to retire. lifhed; for by appointing a fecretary of ftate for the Colonies, and feparating that fecretary of ftate from the board of trade, that board was ipfo facio abolithed, and remained in a fate of annihilation. F Sir Edw. De—ng adverted to the conduct of a right hon. gentleman (Mr. R-gby) refpecting his principle, that the Houfe had no controul over the king's civil lift. He was forry, he faid, that the hon. gentleman had ftarted a queftion, order of the day, to prevent its being and ordered his friends to vote for the put; he should not have wondered to are a very honeft clever fort of a man, have heard him fay to the minifter, "You and I like you very well; but I could wish to get you turned out, that I may put a man of my own into your place." G Mr. Adam fpoke chiefly to that part of the principle of the bill that regards the civil litt. His arguments went to fhew the dangerous tendency of impairing the prerogative of the crown relative to the appointment of executive officers. The hon. gentleman (Gov. Pownall) had made a diftinction, he faid, between Mr. R-y obferved, that the gentleexecutive officers, and the officers of the houfhold; that the former might be curtailed, the latter ought not. If he (Mr. to meet. When he faid, the parliament men in oppofition only endeavoured to irritate him to what they did not defire Adan) were to make a diftinction at all, it would be to reverfe that propofi- he never meant to fay, that they had no had no controul over the king's civil lift, tion. the king was certainly the only proper judge of what officers were ne-Hever. They certainly had. But there ceitary to carry on the executive business ought to be fome abufe of the civil liftover-ruling power in any cafe whatfo of government; and to take from him firft proved. the power of appointing fuch perfons, was breaking in upon one of the principal fupports of the crown. Upon the hon. gentleman on that ground, and to He He called upon Sir Fl-r Nor-n, as the appearance of all friendship and confithe highest legal authority in the king- dence from him; and hewas still at a lofs dom, to give his opinion, whether there to guess what was the firft caufe of offence. was not, in the conftitution of parlia- he had given. What he had done was ment, an inherent right in the reprefen- to the best of his judgment, in difcharge tatives of the people to controul the exof his duty : if he acted wrong, it A ercife of any power in the crown, that arofe from error, not from defign; and, tended to fupport the government by in-whatever others might think, he had the Auence and corruption against the voice fatisfaction of having his condu&t unaof the people, againli the redref of ove- nimously approved of by that House. ry national grievance, and in fubyersion But fuch, he faid, had been the noble of the freedom and independence of par- lord's conduct in a recent tranfaction, as B muft henceforward put an end to every appearance of mutual friendship between them; adding, that, if the noble lord did not do him juftice, he would itate the particulars to the Houfe, and fubmit to it, how far he was bound to remain in a ftation when the performing the duties, annexed to it was made the pretext of do liament. Sir Flr withed to be excufed from giving any opinion refpecting matters which came before that Houfe: bis duty and inclination led him to wifheit; his duty, left from the refpectable and hohourable ftation he filled, his mixing in debate might be fuppofed to create an improper influence in fome of lus hearing him a grofs and flagrant injury. ers; and his inclination forbade him, becaufe he knew from experience, that whatever he might fupport as an individual member, might be apt to bias his judgment in his other character, that of fpeaker, when he came to prefide in theD Houfe. Lord Nth declared his total ignorance of what was now alluded to, or what grounds of offence he had given to the right hon. gentleman, which could induce him thus openly to complain of the ill treatment he had received at his hands. If he had done any thing which juflified the threat now thrown out, he protefted it was entirely unknown to him; and had no doubt but the right hon. gentleman would be convinced, that he had proceeded upon mifinformation E and mistake. If any negotiation was carried, or carrying on, it was more than he knew of. After thus apologizing, the hon. gentleman entered largely into a vindica cation of his own conduct, which he understood had given fome perfons great offence: he then confidered the bill fo far as the principle of it was connected with the propofition fuggefted by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. R-by); and, laftly, he adverted to the queftion put to him by Mr. F-x, giving it as his opinion, that parliament had an inherent right vefted in it of controuling and regulating every branch of the public expenditure, the civil lift as well as the reft; but then, as the civil lift revenue was a pofitive legal vefted right, the neceffity for retrenchment ought to be fully, clearly, and fatisfactorily proved, before parliament fhould offer to interfere; when, however, the neceflity was clearly made out, it was not only the right, but the duty of parliament, to interpole, and no lefs the duty and intereft of the crown to acquiefce. After this declaration, the hon. gentleman deviated from, the fubject, and entered into a perfonal complaint against the behaviour of the minitter towards him, who, ever fince his reporting the fenfe of that Houle, upon prefenting the money-bills at the bar of the other, had withdrawn even Sir Flr role in warmth; and faid, he would not be trifled with; he would flate every particular circumftance relative to the tranfaction to which he had been alluding Lord N-th faid, if he had any difcovery to make of what ought to be revealed, he thould ever difclaim the idea of withing to file or conceal it; for he had nothing perfonally to hope or fear Gupon the occalion. Sir Flr gave the Houfe to underftand, that, previous to his accepting the Chair, he had been applied to by a noble lord then at the head of administration (Duke of G-ton), upon the death of the late fpeaker (Sir J. C-ft), to accept of the very honourable fituation he then held. He had, indeed, been frongly folicited to accept of it, before he did confent; becaule he was no flranger to the great weight neceffarily to be done by whoever filled that chair. But an hon. Alluding to his fpeech. See page 609; and Vol. XLVII. p. 561. SUPP. to GENT. MAG. gentleman knew of the tranfaction at the time when the terms were made, nor looked upon himfelf bound, when he did come to know it, by any fuch agreement. As to that other affertion of the right hon. gentleman, that there was a negotiation on foot, fuch as he had defcribed, and that money had been propofed to be given and received, he affured the right hon. gentleman, that he had been grofsly mifinformed; and, as he was accused of being one of the acting parties, he was entitled to fay, that no fuch negotiation was on foot as had been stated by the right B hon. gentleman. gentleman then in his eye (Mr. R-by) being fent to prevail upon him to accept of the nomination of the minifter, his aufwer was, if he fhould confent, it must be understood, that he by no means meant to be taken out of the line of his profeffion; and that confequently the way, whenever an opportunity offered, A fhould be kept open for his return to Weftminster Hall, adding, by way of juftification, that when his character, his itanding, and his general pretenfions,were confidered, he believed it would not be deemed arrogance or vanity in him to fay, that he was then at the head of his profeflion as a common lawyer. A long perfonal altercation now enfued, confifting of a number of affertions and contradictions, till at length Mr. Dun-g rofe to the queftion; and in a fhort but masterly fpeech proved, it was no more than a mere appendage of adminiftration, no matter who or what the principles were of those who compofed it; and that confequently it ought to be abolished. It was farther ftipulated, that till he was provided for in the way of his profellion (for that was the precedent condition of every thing which followed) he was to have the finecure place he then en-that the board of trade was useless; that joyed [lord chief jufticeship in eyre]; thefe were the terms offered, and upon thefe terms he accep ed the place of peaker; but he had lately heard what, he muft fay, greatly furprised him, that there had been a negotiation on foot, Attorney-gen. Wedb-ne (now Lord (he had it indeed from the beft authori- Loughb-gb) obferved, that while the ty, no lefs than the firft law officer of theD converfation which the committee had crown) to remove a certain chief judge just heard between a learned gentleman (Mr. De G-y), upon penfion, and to and the noble lord near him was going put another in his room (the attorney- on, had he attempted to rife, fome gengeneral). He had no doubt of the hon. tlemen might have imputed it to a defire gentleman's abilities; but, confidering of ftopping what it was neither his intereverycircumftance that applied to that hon. eft nor his wifh to fupprefs. But the gentleman and himfelf, he did not think E converfation being now over, he could he went beyond what the affertion would no longer remain filent, nor fuffer the bear him out in, when he affirmed, that, committee to go away with an imprefnether in point of ftanding or profef- fion, that he wished them to fuppofe him fional reputation, the perfon to whom altogether unconcerned in what had been he was alluding food fairly between him faid. The committee had heard a great and the claims he had upon thofe who deal about negotiations and promifes reinduced him to quit thofe habits of life lative to places: he begged leave to afand profeffional views which were inci- F fure them, that he fhould never accufe dent to its then fituation. the noble lord of breach of promife, beHe could allert, and was ready to caufe he fhould never negotiate for emoprove, that money had been propofed to lument out or in the line of his profefbe given and received, in order to bring fion with the noble lord, or any other about the arrangement to which he now minifter; that he never fhould follicit it, referred; and, whenever a proper time but that, as it had hitherto happened, he came, he would undertake to prove it to G would not go to it, it should come to the fatisfaction of that Houfe. him; that he would not fo difgrace the profeffion he belonged to, fo demean his own character, and betray the interefts of his country, as to feek for finecure emoluments as a compenfation for quitting a profeffion by which he could maintain himfelf independent without any expence to his country. Mr. R-by fpoke to the original tranfaction, which the right hon. gentleman had, to the beft of his recollection, ftated with all poffible candour and correctnefs to the Houfe; but, as far as he could charge his memory at this distance of time, he never understood that any of the particulars came regularly or properly to the knowledge of the noble lord in the blue ribbon. Lord N―th declared, that he neither 7 He faid, he knew the great refpect due to the character and fituation of the right hon. gentleman, and was ready to bow before him; nor was he infenfible of the juftice |